i sent out an email, but i didn't make any of
these accusations. i pointed out 6.2.3.9 above, but suggested i didn't
care (in the end, i don't, really - it's not a big enough issue to get
pissy about). i also requested a fire inspection...
i'm trying to
be non-confrontational and make it about safety. and it is. those laws
are there for a reason, and, i mean, his brother is in there....
and,
i don't want to kill the guy financially, but i find it very hard to
believe that nobody thought to think that putting a gas furnace a few
feet from a stove might not be a good idea. i kind of have to think that
it was ignored on purpose. and, to that i have no response but "you
should have done it rationally, if not legally, to begin with. sorry.".
Friday, July 11, 2014
i'm
actually in a building that is somewhat of a hole in the building code,
although i'm assuming it's well over 400 m^2. well, a quick calculation
took it way over...
there's all kinds of rules about where you are and aren't supposed to put a furnace. it's supposed to be in a fire-separated room - ruling a kitchen out. unless it has "vertical separation" (which i doubt), in which case you can use a sprinkler. it's supposed to be a good distance away from bedrooms and living rooms, meaning where it is is no good. there's supposed to be separation in the flooring (which was just eliminated by cutting the holes through the floor).
there's all kinds of rules about where you are and aren't supposed to put a furnace. it's supposed to be in a fire-separated room - ruling a kitchen out. unless it has "vertical separation" (which i doubt), in which case you can use a sprinkler. it's supposed to be a good distance away from bedrooms and living rooms, meaning where it is is no good. there's supposed to be separation in the flooring (which was just eliminated by cutting the holes through the floor).
and, you know, i just took a look
through the building code act, and it's actually not even legal to
recycle air between apartments.
6.2.3.9. Interconnection of Systems
(1) In a residential occupancy, air from one suite shall not be circulated to any other suite or to a public corridor or public stairway
not to mention fire issues with putting a furnace in the kitchen, now that i think about it.
i think i should deal with this by getting a safety inspector in here and focusing on that part of it.
6.2.3.9. Interconnection of Systems
(1) In a residential occupancy, air from one suite shall not be circulated to any other suite or to a public corridor or public stairway
not to mention fire issues with putting a furnace in the kitchen, now that i think about it.
i think i should deal with this by getting a safety inspector in here and focusing on that part of it.
concerns regarding the furnace
hi.
i'm sorry to make this long, but i've been thinking about the furnace all day and i've got a number of fairly serious concerns. i wish i had brought these up to you before things got underway, but it wasn't clear to me exactly what was going on and i sort of assumed things would be done in a way that was up to certain regulations.
i want to state up front that i'm not going to go running to any kind of regulatory body. i mean, it's an option that exists, but i'm not one to bring the government in to deal with issues lightheartedly - that's an extreme step that i would consider an absolute last resort. i'd probably move out before i did that. i think that would ruin the tenant-landlord relationship, which i'd rather keep cordial and positive. but, there's a lot of things about this that aren't sitting right with me.
to begin with, i want to point out that the idea of running an air vent between units is prohibited by ontario law.
6.2.3.9. Interconnection of Systems
(1) In a residential occupancy, air from one suite shall not be circulated to any other suite or to a public corridor or public stairway.
that's pretty clear, and it's exactly what the return systems are doing.
now, i want to be clear that this does not bother me, personally, as a tenant. i think it may concern your brother due to noise and temperature issues, as i don't keep regular hours and i'm likely to keep the windows open if the air gets out of hand. but, as a practical matter, i don't really care.
further, i've pointed out repeatedly that i plan to inhabit this unit for many years moving forwards, conditions allowing.
but, flaunting the law on that point is going to make the unit unrentable in the future should something happen that will force me to move out. i think it's worth questioning the wisdom of carrying on that path, for that reason.
further, the aesthetic changes attached to running open ducts and condensation pipes through here are dramatic. this is really a very nice unit. is it really worth damaging it's aesthetic quality to such an extreme point to save costs on electricity? put another way, what's the use of reducing the costs in the unit if you make it unmarketable (or drastically reduce it's market value) in the process of doing so?
i suppose the pipes could be drywalled over. but, that return vent is a more serious issue.
as your existing tenant, something i'm more seriously concerned about is fire code issues. i don't know the specifics about what exists upstairs, so i don't want to jump to any conclusions, but i've reviewed the fire code and i'm EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL that what exists upstairs is permitted by law. i'm sure you expect your brother to inhabit the unit for many years as well, but that's another issue that i think requires some thought.
my one request is as follows: as a matter of practicality regarding my safety as a tenant, i would request that you have the situation inspected to ensure that all fire codes are met. i think that's well within my rights as a tenant, and i think it's a more than reasonable (and not at all confrontational) request.
j
i'm sorry to make this long, but i've been thinking about the furnace all day and i've got a number of fairly serious concerns. i wish i had brought these up to you before things got underway, but it wasn't clear to me exactly what was going on and i sort of assumed things would be done in a way that was up to certain regulations.
i want to state up front that i'm not going to go running to any kind of regulatory body. i mean, it's an option that exists, but i'm not one to bring the government in to deal with issues lightheartedly - that's an extreme step that i would consider an absolute last resort. i'd probably move out before i did that. i think that would ruin the tenant-landlord relationship, which i'd rather keep cordial and positive. but, there's a lot of things about this that aren't sitting right with me.
to begin with, i want to point out that the idea of running an air vent between units is prohibited by ontario law.
6.2.3.9. Interconnection of Systems
(1) In a residential occupancy, air from one suite shall not be circulated to any other suite or to a public corridor or public stairway.
that's pretty clear, and it's exactly what the return systems are doing.
now, i want to be clear that this does not bother me, personally, as a tenant. i think it may concern your brother due to noise and temperature issues, as i don't keep regular hours and i'm likely to keep the windows open if the air gets out of hand. but, as a practical matter, i don't really care.
further, i've pointed out repeatedly that i plan to inhabit this unit for many years moving forwards, conditions allowing.
but, flaunting the law on that point is going to make the unit unrentable in the future should something happen that will force me to move out. i think it's worth questioning the wisdom of carrying on that path, for that reason.
further, the aesthetic changes attached to running open ducts and condensation pipes through here are dramatic. this is really a very nice unit. is it really worth damaging it's aesthetic quality to such an extreme point to save costs on electricity? put another way, what's the use of reducing the costs in the unit if you make it unmarketable (or drastically reduce it's market value) in the process of doing so?
i suppose the pipes could be drywalled over. but, that return vent is a more serious issue.
as your existing tenant, something i'm more seriously concerned about is fire code issues. i don't know the specifics about what exists upstairs, so i don't want to jump to any conclusions, but i've reviewed the fire code and i'm EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL that what exists upstairs is permitted by law. i'm sure you expect your brother to inhabit the unit for many years as well, but that's another issue that i think requires some thought.
my one request is as follows: as a matter of practicality regarding my safety as a tenant, i would request that you have the situation inspected to ensure that all fire codes are met. i think that's well within my rights as a tenant, and i think it's a more than reasonable (and not at all confrontational) request.
j
actually, i should point out that i don't know where the thermostat
is. i'm assuming it's measuring the temperature at the cold air return
(you'd think modern furnaces are high tech about this, but i don't
know); if the thermostat is away from there (like in his living room,
for example) then it shouldn't have that kind of feedback problem.
given that the furnace is in his kitchen, though (yes, for real, there's a furnace in the kitchen - good luck renting that unit in the future, too), it seems likely to me that the thermostat is probably connected directly to it....
i mean, i wouldn't expect them to chop through the walls to place the thermostat five feet away in the other room. it's probably mounted right on it.
given that the furnace is in his kitchen, though (yes, for real, there's a furnace in the kitchen - good luck renting that unit in the future, too), it seems likely to me that the thermostat is probably connected directly to it....
i mean, i wouldn't expect them to chop through the walls to place the thermostat five feet away in the other room. it's probably mounted right on it.
so, installing the furnace meant putting in a cold air return that is basically an open hole in the floor.
1) noise. i'm a respectable tenant, i don't blast music or make any more noise than would be considered reasonable, but i'm often awake off hours and there's not any chance i'm going to modify that. that's a big part of what i consider to be freedom. so, he's going to hear me watching youtube or making spaghetti at 4:00 am. *shrug*. there wasn't a problem until they drilled a hole in the floor...
2) air conditioning. i like to acclimatize myself. he seems to like the air on full blast. i'm not going to freeze down here, i'm going to open the window and let the heat in. and, the hot air is going to rise, meaning his air isn't going to work the way he wants it to. *shrug*.
3) i don't have any plans to move anywhere, but if they get pissy about the noise or the windows? good luck renting this to somebody else with a hole in the floor and pipes moving out every which way. i don't care, myself, i'm interested in the amount of space down here and not what it looks like, but what they're doing is irreversibly aesthetically damaging to the property. this was a nice unit, but we're talking about open furnace ducts on the ceilings (like you'd see in an unfinished basement) and a condensation pipe running open through the bathroom and drilled through the tiles into the concrete. it's actually a good thing for them that i don't care, that i've lived in half-finished basements most of my life, because just about anybody else would immediately move out. it makes it more like i'm renting somebody's basement than living in an apartment complex, which i think is how the landlord is more or less interpreting the arrangement.
again: i don't have any plans to move anywhere. i'm just going to make the adjustments i need, and the other tenants will have to deal with it. this simply isn't likely to work out well for the tenant upstairs, who happens to be the landlord's brother. and i'm not sure what their next step is, or if they even have one. i mean, they can't curfew me or tell me to close the windows...
i should point out that the furnace came in as plan b. the initial plan was to put a heat pump in.
but, over a very long email exchange, i was eventually able to explain to him that heat pumps don't work in canadian winters - that, in canada, a heat pump is functionally an air conditioner with an electric coil attached to it, and he'd just be wasting thousands of dollars. but, if i wasn't vigilant about it...
on the one hand, he's a good landlord. he's attentive. and he gives a fuck.
but i'm slowly concluding that he's just not that sharp.
and, you know, i wish i had done some research on this, or they had run their plans by me, because, looking at it, i'm more or less convinced that the way they've got it installed is basically just going to send the hot air back up through the return. when you add the cost of gas to the cost of electricity, it's going to cost him more than it would have if he didn't do anything at all. and, that's plus the cost of installing the thing....
again: there's no malice. and the idea of trying to reduce cost is reasonable.
but everything about the way it's being done is flat out stupid.
i mean, the first obviously dumb thing about this is that they put the furnace at ground level. who does that? the (unstated but obvious) reason is he wanted his brother to control the thermostat. but it doesn't make any sense to think you can heat a basement from the floor above it. the cold air returns on the furnace are going to pick the hot air up, which is likely going to affect the thermostat reading - because it's going to think it's warmer upstairs than it actually is, due to all the hot air coming up. meanwhile, i'm going to continue using electric heat (because the hot air won't distribute well down here from the ceiling), and that's *also* going to heat the cold air return, further reducing the efficiency.
my best guess is that he'll probably react by turning it up higher, correctly realizing it doesn't work but thinking the solution is to set the thermostat to 30. but, it's not going to make a difference, because the hotter it blows out through the ceiling down here, the hotter it comes in to the return. turning it up is going to actually turn it OFF.
i'd like to laugh, but it's more sad than funny.
i took physics beyond grade 13, but it was only required up to grade 10. the only thermodynamics they bothered with was the conservation laws. they didn't even introduce newton's laws until grade 12 - an elective course. i don't know how i remember that....
i guess this is what happens when your education system sucks.
you want to put the returns as low as possible, ideally on the floor of the basement. if you must put the furnace on the second floor, and want to heat the basement, the last thing you want to do is cut a hole in the floor for a return. you want that heat pumping downwards to have as difficult a time as is possible getting back up. it would consequently make more sense to INSULATE the floor...
i can't imagine the guys that installed it don't know that. well, maybe they don't....because who puts a furnace at ground level?
but, i'm sort of wondering if the installers are maybe stabbing him in the back for some reason.
again: i'm not the one that's going to suffer. i should just get some popcorn and relax...
1) noise. i'm a respectable tenant, i don't blast music or make any more noise than would be considered reasonable, but i'm often awake off hours and there's not any chance i'm going to modify that. that's a big part of what i consider to be freedom. so, he's going to hear me watching youtube or making spaghetti at 4:00 am. *shrug*. there wasn't a problem until they drilled a hole in the floor...
2) air conditioning. i like to acclimatize myself. he seems to like the air on full blast. i'm not going to freeze down here, i'm going to open the window and let the heat in. and, the hot air is going to rise, meaning his air isn't going to work the way he wants it to. *shrug*.
3) i don't have any plans to move anywhere, but if they get pissy about the noise or the windows? good luck renting this to somebody else with a hole in the floor and pipes moving out every which way. i don't care, myself, i'm interested in the amount of space down here and not what it looks like, but what they're doing is irreversibly aesthetically damaging to the property. this was a nice unit, but we're talking about open furnace ducts on the ceilings (like you'd see in an unfinished basement) and a condensation pipe running open through the bathroom and drilled through the tiles into the concrete. it's actually a good thing for them that i don't care, that i've lived in half-finished basements most of my life, because just about anybody else would immediately move out. it makes it more like i'm renting somebody's basement than living in an apartment complex, which i think is how the landlord is more or less interpreting the arrangement.
again: i don't have any plans to move anywhere. i'm just going to make the adjustments i need, and the other tenants will have to deal with it. this simply isn't likely to work out well for the tenant upstairs, who happens to be the landlord's brother. and i'm not sure what their next step is, or if they even have one. i mean, they can't curfew me or tell me to close the windows...
i should point out that the furnace came in as plan b. the initial plan was to put a heat pump in.
but, over a very long email exchange, i was eventually able to explain to him that heat pumps don't work in canadian winters - that, in canada, a heat pump is functionally an air conditioner with an electric coil attached to it, and he'd just be wasting thousands of dollars. but, if i wasn't vigilant about it...
on the one hand, he's a good landlord. he's attentive. and he gives a fuck.
but i'm slowly concluding that he's just not that sharp.
and, you know, i wish i had done some research on this, or they had run their plans by me, because, looking at it, i'm more or less convinced that the way they've got it installed is basically just going to send the hot air back up through the return. when you add the cost of gas to the cost of electricity, it's going to cost him more than it would have if he didn't do anything at all. and, that's plus the cost of installing the thing....
again: there's no malice. and the idea of trying to reduce cost is reasonable.
but everything about the way it's being done is flat out stupid.
i mean, the first obviously dumb thing about this is that they put the furnace at ground level. who does that? the (unstated but obvious) reason is he wanted his brother to control the thermostat. but it doesn't make any sense to think you can heat a basement from the floor above it. the cold air returns on the furnace are going to pick the hot air up, which is likely going to affect the thermostat reading - because it's going to think it's warmer upstairs than it actually is, due to all the hot air coming up. meanwhile, i'm going to continue using electric heat (because the hot air won't distribute well down here from the ceiling), and that's *also* going to heat the cold air return, further reducing the efficiency.
my best guess is that he'll probably react by turning it up higher, correctly realizing it doesn't work but thinking the solution is to set the thermostat to 30. but, it's not going to make a difference, because the hotter it blows out through the ceiling down here, the hotter it comes in to the return. turning it up is going to actually turn it OFF.
i'd like to laugh, but it's more sad than funny.
i took physics beyond grade 13, but it was only required up to grade 10. the only thermodynamics they bothered with was the conservation laws. they didn't even introduce newton's laws until grade 12 - an elective course. i don't know how i remember that....
i guess this is what happens when your education system sucks.
you want to put the returns as low as possible, ideally on the floor of the basement. if you must put the furnace on the second floor, and want to heat the basement, the last thing you want to do is cut a hole in the floor for a return. you want that heat pumping downwards to have as difficult a time as is possible getting back up. it would consequently make more sense to INSULATE the floor...
i can't imagine the guys that installed it don't know that. well, maybe they don't....because who puts a furnace at ground level?
but, i'm sort of wondering if the installers are maybe stabbing him in the back for some reason.
again: i'm not the one that's going to suffer. i should just get some popcorn and relax...
deathtokoalas
well, this starts off a bit more interesting, although it falls into every-other-ambient-song-ever-made a little under halfway through.
see, i wouldn't argue lopatin is without potential. but i find he (and a lot of his contemporaries, as well) release such an incredible bulk of material that it's easy to see why so much of it is so lacklustre. maybe if they spent more time on their work it wouldn't all sound the same?
but, overall, this kind of reminds me of the time that keith emerson decided it was a good idea to redo a bunch of mussorgsky on primitive synths. it really wasn't a very good idea. that was probably prog rock's most openly pompous and pretentious (and least self-conscious) moment. this will have a similar fate in the annals of music history...
the only half decent attempt at reinterpreting classical music for synthesizers that i've heard is william orbit's "pieces in a modern style".
k l
blender rock
deathtokoalas
well, the existing genres are all tainted, and i needed a catch phrase....
it's psych, basically.
wholewurld
Listen to Isao Tomita's Pictures At An Exhibition
deathtokoalas
i really wish people would just listen to mussorgsky's pictures at an exhibition, and tell everybody that's trying to commodify it to fuck off.
VexeonX
... Fuck.
well, this starts off a bit more interesting, although it falls into every-other-ambient-song-ever-made a little under halfway through.
see, i wouldn't argue lopatin is without potential. but i find he (and a lot of his contemporaries, as well) release such an incredible bulk of material that it's easy to see why so much of it is so lacklustre. maybe if they spent more time on their work it wouldn't all sound the same?
but, overall, this kind of reminds me of the time that keith emerson decided it was a good idea to redo a bunch of mussorgsky on primitive synths. it really wasn't a very good idea. that was probably prog rock's most openly pompous and pretentious (and least self-conscious) moment. this will have a similar fate in the annals of music history...
the only half decent attempt at reinterpreting classical music for synthesizers that i've heard is william orbit's "pieces in a modern style".
k l
blender rock
deathtokoalas
well, the existing genres are all tainted, and i needed a catch phrase....
it's psych, basically.
wholewurld
Listen to Isao Tomita's Pictures At An Exhibition
deathtokoalas
i really wish people would just listen to mussorgsky's pictures at an exhibition, and tell everybody that's trying to commodify it to fuck off.
VexeonX
... Fuck.
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